BROOKINGS INSTITUTE WEBINAR MAY 15, 2020

COVID-19’s effects on prisons

with Rashawn Ray (moderator), Marcus Bullock, Annelies Groger, the Reverend Jesse Jackson, Marc Schindler, Dr. S. Todd Yeary

— Please note, live tweeting is inherently imperfect, this is not a complete transcript of the panel. —

.@RevJJackson calls on us all to focus on the lives and health of people who are incarcerated, especially in this time of #pandemic “Behind the prison walls people are getting the virus, workers are getting sick and dying, there are no cameras behind those walls.”

From the historical legacy of convict leasing to prisons on the NY Stock Exchange, we must focus on these disparities and how they impact people living in prisons in catastrophic ways @SociologistRay

.@marc4justice why #COVID19 is ravaging prisons — in essence we have a tragic “perfect storm” — longstanding racial disproportionate impacts and the disproportionate impact of COVID-19 on people of color. @BrookingsGov #COVIDPrisons

Since 1980 we’ve had a 500% increase in the number of ppl incarcerated — by far the highest rate in the world, with very little positive impact on public safety, destabilizing communities and making us less safe — @marc4justice @BrookingsGov #COVIDPrisons

If people of color were incarcerated at the same rate as white people we’d have drastic reductions in rates of incarceration — if the numbers were flipped and it was people who looked at me (white), everything would be different @marc4justice @BrookingsGov #COVIDPrisons

Over 20k incarcerated people and 5k staff have contracted the virus, incarcerated ppl infected at far higher rates than general public — with VERY little testing. When there is widespread testing it’s 50–70% of populations. A public health and social justice crisis @marc4justice

As a 15-year-old I was sent to adult maximum-security prison because I stole a car. There is very little uniformity in how facilities are operated, so my experience may differ from that of others, but they’re generally not focused on health @_marcus_bullock @BrookingsGov

The people who work in the kitchens, clean spaces, deliver the food trays, work in the medical spaces — these are the incarcerated residents who live there. I can only imagine how scary it must be to live where you can’t keep yourself safe @_marcus_bullock #COVIDPrisons

Family engagement means everything — knowing they’re ok, mom is ok, the family is ok is so important to all of us — but there are millions of people living in those cells — communications are shutting down and nobody knows what’s going on @_marcus_bullock #COVIDPrisons

We believe scalable tech allowing people to communicate right now at least can alleviate some of these anxieties that are troubling so many @_marcus_bullock @BrookingsGov #COVIDPrisons

.@SociologistRay people cycle in and out of these facilities every single day — residents and workers — and the impacts of these spillage effects outside the walls are huge @BrookingsGov #COVIDPrisons

.@annelies_goger if you look across the US, the top counties in terms of per capita cases — 5 out of the top 10 house prisons (4 others were meat packing facilities.) We have to pay attention to these spaces, making sure the people inside and outside are both safe #COVIDPrisons

This isn’t a loophole — it’s the design of the system — the criminal justice system is designed to work this way. At the end of the Civil War you have a new plantation created by the 13th amendment — the prison system. We have to start fresh @styeary @BrookingsGov #COVIDPrisons

You see it in all realms of the justice system — people held inside simply because they can’t afford bail — the system is set up to keep people connected within. These aren’t loopholes but how it was defined @styeary @BrookingsGov #COVIDPrisons

Whole towns and economies are built around keeping prisons open @revjjackson @BrookingsGov #COVIDPrisons

The state of Alabama — convict leasing accounted for 70% of the state’s economy — it’s not a loophole, it’s how the system was designed @SociologistRay

Constitutional policing — B’more city is under consent decree going back to the death of Freddie Gray — we don’t often talk about the neighborhood he was from has the highest number of people taken out of the community in the state @styeary @BrookingsGov #COVIDPrisons

We have to get rid of money bail — if the state hasn’t met it’s burden of proof then I shouldn’t owe the state anything. The burden should always be on the state, not the individual @styeary @BrookingsGov #COVIDPrisons

Then we have to watch for local judicial elections, make sure that the citizenship right is protected and preserved while the government decides what to do @styeary @BrookingsGov #COVIDPrisons

You have to change the system from the bottom up, otherwise the system is like the house in Vegas — the house always wins @styeary @BrookingsGov #COVIDPrisons

Education within facilities varies tremendously, both who governs it and what community organizations surround it — which we have to pay attention to in crisis especially @annelies_goger @BrookingsGov #COVIDPrisons

In Marion County OH we helped justice involved people transition into community college and other educational systems, along with case management and career coaching to help people with reentry and keep people out of the system in the first place @annelies_goger #COVIDPrisons

My concern about all these layoffs is we’re talking about doing another round of experiments — we have successes and we need to scale those, with permanent funding schemes — where people can work while getting trained @annelies_goger @BrookingsGov #COVIDPrisons

Flickshop School of Business — we’re leveraging existing technologies to support family engagement — we’re also excited about helping businesses highlight opportunities for people reentering society, therefore helping reduce recidivism @_marcus_bullock @BrookingsGov #COVIDPrisons

It’s only because of tech programs inside — when I went in there was no internet, when I came home there was google — to be successful with reentry you have to be able to get a job, to learn the tech, so we’re going into facilities with a unique curriculum @_marcus_bullock

To take this kind of core messaging into thousands of facilities across the country we’re bringing virtual reality in — the talent is across the board — but the access to education and skill building isn’t @_marcus_bullock @BrookingsGov #COVIDPrisons

We started with the reality that we have far too many people in this country in cages, especially Black and Brown people @marc4justice @BrookingsGov #COVIDPrisons

Reforms should pass a three part test — is it effective, is it fair, and is it safe — what we know is right now, even on its best day aren’t safe, and now people there have effectively been sentenced to death @marc4justice @BrookingsGov #COVIDPrisons

Good thing — on the pre-trial side we’ve seen about a 30% reduction across the country @marc4justice @BrookingsGov #COVIDPrisons

In these times we have to be doing everything we can to keep people out of prisons. Some of the jail reductions right now are because of the activism. @marc4justice @BrookingsGov #COVIDPrisons

Over the last 10–12 years, the number of juveniles detained has gone down substantially, and juvenile crime rates have gone down at the same time. We know incarceration is the most expensive, least effective and most unfair response. @marc4justice @BrookingsGov #COVIDPrisons

We know that recidivism is least likely for people who can get a job — we have to support people in using the skills and training they acquire inside prisons to actually get hired. @RevJJackson @BrookingsGov #COVIDPrisons

That’s exactly right — we have to give people a fair shot when they’ve served their time and come out. @annelies_goger @BrookingsGov #COVIDPrisons

In terms of #COVID19 we have to think about the fact that many people who are released are released into congregate housing — we have to increase the supports that are available for them @annelies_goger @BrookingsGov #COVIDPrisons

A lot of people I’ve met in prison, one of the biggest hurdles to employment is childcare, child support @RevJJackson @BrookingsGov #COVIDPrisons

There’s an image that people who are in prisons are universally violent — but that’s deeply not the case — and that affects everything from release decisions to reentry support from a practical standpoint @SociologistRay @BrookingsGov #COVIDPrisons

We’ve created a bifurcated system denying full human rights to people who are incarcerated — you can test, depopulate etc inside just as you can outside @styeary @BrookingsGov #COVIDPrisons

States overcharge, parole boards have to be activated, governors have to use their executive authority, and then some time you have to go to court. But we need a new line of cases to protect people @styeary @BrookingsGov #COVIDPrisons

People like @_marcus_bullock can’t get Pell grants, can’t get public housing — it’s a prescription for recidivism outside the walls @RevJJackson

.@_marcus_bullock I’m going to go out on a limb and say I was the only one here to live in a public and private prison. When I was in prison I wasn’t thinking about it — they all looked the same, operated the same, a prison was a prison @_marcus_bullock #COVIDPrisons

Going back to violent vs non-violent cases and access to training — when I committed my crime, my friend and I walked up on a guy, pulled out a gun, told him to step out of his car and drove off — there are so many restrictions around people when they come home @_marcus_bullock

If we expect people to live decent, full lives, to coach their kids’ sports teams, we have to change this whole realm of reentry restrictions based on the violent vs non-violent distinction @_marcus_bullock #COVIDPrisons

.@marc4justice on the violent/non-violent dichotomy — most states, to the extent that they’re talking about releasing people, it’s non-violent only — we have to get past the offense and look at risk factor instead @BrookingsGov #COVIDPrisons

Today there are so many people across the country who went in for violent offenses, but who are old and sick and vulnerable — they are high risk — at high risk for dying @marc4justice @BrookingsGov #COVIDPrisons

Prisons are incredibly expensive nursing homes, we have to get these people out of what are essentially petri dishes — with solid reentry plans, and get them out so they aren’t dying @marc4justice @BrookingsGov #COVIDPrisons

.@RevJJackson we have to pay attention to the fact that workers are getting sick in prisons and then take the infection home and spread it to their families, communities and loved ones @BrookingsGov #COVIDPrisons

.@marc4justice in some places it’s the governor, the parole commission, the DA — but everyone who is in a decision making role must step up looking at who they can be releasing immediately to be getting people out of these facilities where people are getting sick #COVIDPrisons

Need to prevent people from going in — technical violations — police officers having discernment about how they are locking up — thinking twice about who we are putting inside, especially right now @_marcus_bullock @BrookingsGov #COVIDPrisons

The press has a responsibility to investigate and find out exactly what is going on behind the walls. We can’t go inside, but we need to know who is getting sick, who is dying, and what’s going on behind the walls @revjjackson @BrookingsGov #COVIDPrisons